【Fink Different】TOPYS专访奥美中国首席创意长樊克明Graham Fink

采访、整理/桃红小闪电 VIVI @顶尖文案TOPYS 

他以乔装打扮加入“成熟人士“团队，应聘人生第一份创意工作。

他曾拥奖无数，成为英国历史上最年轻的D&AD评委会主席。

他爱才到偏执，因一份网络转帖不远千里飞香港追寻在校创意人。

他创办The Art School，为广告、设计以及电影行业培养优秀的年轻人才。

两年前，他飞离伦敦，空降中国，挂帅奥美。

两年后，TOPYS独家专访，与你一起见识英伦“创意巫师”Graham Fink的鬼才神话。

About Creative Thinking

关于创意方法 

Topys：Earlier in the D-Talk from ADC exhibition, you mentioned about 'FINK (think) DIFFERENT'. What does ‘THINK DIFFERENT mean to you? Can you tell us more about your way of creative thinking? 

Topys：前不久深圳的ADC展览的D-Talk中，你提到'FINK（think）DIFFERENT'， 请问你如何理解Think Different？和我们聊聊创意狂人的创意思维方式。 

Fink：Thinking different is about looking at the same things as everyone else and seeing them in a different way. As an example when Picasso looked at a bicycle, he saw a bull.

Fink：Think different 的意思就是要跟别人看同一件事物却得到不一样的看法。其中一个有名的例子就是一辆普通的自行车在毕加索眼中却看成是一头牛。

Topys： “Innovation is to see what the others couldn’t when looking in the same thing”. How can we train and achieve this ability?

Topys： “从同一件事物中，看到别人看不到的东西，这就是创新。”如何培养和达成这样的创新能力？

Fink：There are many techniques that I can teach people. One is to do exactly the opposite to what you should be doing. This is great when trying to come up with new ideas. Do what is wrong. Be ridiculous. It can be a lot of fun and will break your thinking away from the norm. You need to be brave though. You can then always bend the idea back to something that is usuable,but the fact you have tried something different will lead to new ideas.
Fink：我有很多技巧可以跟大家分享，其中一个就是要去做和通常你应该去做的完全相反的事。故意去做错，甚至做一些看似很滑稽的事，都是构思一些新的创意的好办法。这些创意是打破常规的但也是让人从中得到乐趣的，但是你要勇敢地去尝试。然后你总是可以再把这个创意折回到一个可用的创意，多尝试些不同的东西能为你带来更多新的创意。
 
Topys：Having been an educator, photographer, TV director, and now a CCO, what experiences do these different roles bring to you? Do you think these experiences make impact on your creative thinking?

Topys：教育者、摄影师、电视导演、创意掌门人这些不同身份带来怎样的体验？你觉得这些不同体验给你的创意思维带来怎样的影响?
Fink：Every role has been very rewarding for me. I have learnt so much from each of them. As a filmmaker I learnt a lot about story-telling and how to re-edit those storys into new ones. I learnt about the craft of film and also photography, which lenses to use to get the best out of a shot. Different film stocks, digital, lighting and pacing. The craft in film-making is less important than the story but if you want people to be more involved in the story you need to make it look beautiful.
Being a CCO allows me to use those things give learnt and use them in solving problems. For instance if a client wants a film produced for their product, I have a better idea of how it can be made and the best ways to make it. How long the idea needs on screen to make it work. I can also judge scripts better on paper now because I can see the finished film in my minds eye. As a teacher I am really just passing what I have learnt onto others. I find teaching very rewarding because in a way you are teaching yourself.
Fink：每个角色都令我获益良多。我学到很多。作为一个制片人，我学会如何说故事并把这些旧故事重新包装。同时也学会了拍电影以及摄影的技巧，以及运用何种镜头来达到最佳的拍摄效果、各种电影胶片，数码的、灯光、节奏等等。虽然故事比拍摄技巧重要，但华丽精美的视觉表达有助观众更投入在你的故事里。作为首席创意长，我有机会用以上学到的种种技能来解决问题。比如说一个客户希望为他的产品拍一段片子，我就更能判断能怎么拍以及用哪种方法最好。这种执行要停留在画面中多久来达到效果。我也仅靠读一下就能判断怎样的剧本比较好，因为我能够在脑海里想象到完成时的作品会是什么样子。而做老师的日子，我就是尽力将我所拥有的知识教授于别人。当老师给我很大的满足感因为同时我也让自己学到更多。
 
Topys：Can you share with us some of your favourite work/ projects and tell us why you like them?
Topys：和我们分享2-3个你最得意的作品吧，以及你为什么喜欢它们。
Fink：A very early commercial I did for British Airways has always been a favourite of mine. It involved making shapes out of hundreds of people when viewed from the air. An eye ，a pair of lips, an ear.. they all came together to make a face. Over 1500 people were used in the making of the ad. Directed by British director Hugh Hudson.
A more recent piece of work that I was very proud to be part of was the project for Soho China’s Soho Galaxy. Where we created the myth that the Chinese were the first to send a monkey into space. We then ‘brought him back to earth’ to talk about creativity.
Fink：很早期的时候我为英国航空公司做的一个广告一直是我最喜欢的。摄影机在高空中拍摄由上百人拼在一起组成的眼睛、嘴唇、和耳朵。整个广告用了1500人，由英国导演Hugh Hudson执导。

SOHO中国的银河SOHO是近期让我感到很自豪能参与的一个项目。我们制造一个传说，把中国说成是第一个把猩猩送到外太空的国家，然后再“请”猩猩回到地球为我们讲解创意。

Topys：In your opinion, what role does copywriter play in the creative thinking process?
Topys：你怎么理解文案在创意中的作用？
Fink：A copywriter is a very important part of the process. Often they need to work with the planner to get the best brief possible. A write should play a big part in the strategic thinking in my view. And should be capable of making a very complicated data and long briefing sessions into something very simple and memorable.
Fink：文案在创作过程中担当着非常重要的角色。作为一个文案，他们常常要跟策划人员一同合作来形成一份最佳的简报，我觉得它们应该在策划阶段就扮演很重要的角色。他们应该有能力把复杂的数据和冗长的简报会议转化成简洁和令人难忘的信息。
 
Topys：You have labeled yourself as ‘the wizard of creativity’ in your weibo account, which is rather British. Do you mind sharing with us in what ways has British culture influenced your way of thinking? Also, do you find any new inspirations when the British culture meets the Chinese culture?
Topys：你的微博标签是“创意巫师”，这个标签相当“英伦”，和我们聊聊英伦文化对你的影响吧，以及它与中国文化的碰撞和冲击，给你带来了什么？
Fink：That’s a very big question and my answers are too long to go into detail here. But I would say that living in the UK all of my life until I came to China has had a big effect on me. The humour in the UK is very different to start with. It’s much more subtle, and the British have a way of taking the mickey out of themselves, they are always laughing at themselves. We tend to go straight to the point too and say exactly what we think. So of course there is a big difference there. But I think mixing up cultures is when a lot of creativity happens. Working with people in China I find very exciting. We can look at things from different perspectives but because we are in the same room doing it, you can get unique results. I am interested in Chinese culture and taking local insights and then really expanding them into something that will appeal to people worldwide.
Fink：要回答这个问题实在是一言难尽。直到我来中国工作之前我都是在英国生活，这是对我有很大影响。首先，英国式的幽默是很不一样的，更微妙和低调一些，而且英国人都很喜欢自嘲。我们也习惯单刀直入，直接道出心中所想。这当然跟中国人有很大差别。但是我觉得把不同的文化融合就是创意的开始。我觉得跟中国人一起做事是一件很令人兴奋的事，我们能够以不同的角度看事物，但因为我们是在同一屋檐下共事，所以往往得到了很独特的结果。我对中国文化很感兴趣，希望能发扬这些本土的洞察并传播出去吸引世界上的其他人。
 
About Creative Management

关于创意管理
 
Topys：What are the daily tasks for a CCO?
Topys：CCO的日常工作主要是什么？
Fink：Its like spinning plates. Doing many tasks and keeping them all going. Solving clients problems and helping to run the agency. On a media front things are changing constantly and I try to keep up with that too and see how creatively we can make a difference. I think an agency should keep reinventing itself whilst staying true to its core values.
Fink：这跟马戏团里的转盘子表演很相似，就是要兼顾许多工作且同时确保它们运作顺畅。我要帮忙解决客户的问题，协助公司的营运工作。面对不断快速变化的媒体，我也在努力赶上最新的资讯来检视我们能在创意方面做些什么来起点作用。我觉得一家广告公司应该持续地革新自己，但也要坚持自己的核心价值。
 
Topys：Can you tell us what is so unique about O&M’s way of creative thinking and its management?
Topys：为我们谈谈奥美的创意方法和创意管理的独特之处。
Fink：We are a big agency and also have a very large network which is great because we can help each other out at times. We also have the luxury of having many specialist talents all under one roof on a wide range of disciplines. For example we have Ogilvy PR ,Ogilvy One, Ogilvy Fashion and Ogilvy Action as well as the main agency. We often sit together and brainstorm. I find some of these sessions very exciting creatively as everyone has a different kind of brain and can approach a problem from a different point of view.
Fink：我们是一家拥有庞大的网络的大机构，有需要的时候可以互相帮助，这很不错。我们也很荣幸能够在麾下招募了来自不同领域的专家和人才 。除了主要的广告公司之外，在同一个机构下我们也有奥美公关、奥美互动、奥美时尚以及奥美行动。我们经常坐下来一起进行脑力激荡，我觉得有些这样的讨论在创意上还是很让人兴奋的 ，因为每个人都有独特的思考模式，可以用不同的观点去处理问题。
 
Topys：David Ogilvy once said in “Confessions of an Advertising man” that ad men should never underestimate the IQ of the consumers. However, compared with other countries, Ogilvy does not seem to produce works that are as surprising here in China, for example, like the dramatic tensions in P&G ads, or the Aesthetics shown in MG Masks ads. Although we should not doubt the creativity of the ad men in China, but can we account this situation for that the audience in China is not mature enough?  
Topys：记得奥格威在《一个广告人的自白》里说，广告人不可低估了消费者的智商。而事实上奥美在中国很少有像其他国家风格另类的惊艳之作的许多作品。例如宝洁热衷夸张的邂逅剧情，美即则展示了恒久的唯美调性。显然不能以此质疑中国广告人的创意能力，那么可不可以理解为，横向比较下，是中国的受众还不够成熟？
Fink：I think the creative work in China has a long way to go to catch up with the West. Although it is catching fast. JWT won China’s first ever Grand Prix in Cannes two years ago for Samsonite and we won Ogilvy Asia’s first ever Grand Prix the following year for CokeHands. The hard thing is to be consistent and building brands requires a great relationship with clients so you can push for better work. I think we need to work much harder at this and try to develop more surprising ideas. Another problem in China is the size of the country.
I heard Millward Brown say that what works in one province only has a 52% chance of working in another. So it’s not an easy fix.
However I am a great believer that creativity can solve everything. I am always looking for talented people to come and work with me and of course brave clients who want to try something different and make a name for themselves.
Fink：虽然中国已经不停地加快脚步，但我自己觉得中国在创意业上还是离西方国家有一段距离。两年前智威汤逊凭借新秀丽在戛纳创意节赢得中国第一个全场大奖，而翌年我们以可乐手为奥美亚洲赢得了第一个全场大奖。难的是要持续下去。而建立品牌需要与客户维持良好关系才可以促进作品质量的提升。我认为我们需要在这方面再多下工夫去发掘更多令人意想不到的创意。中国的另一个问题就是地域广大。根据华通明略的数据，在一个省市能行得通的方案，能够再在其它省市起到一样的作用的机会只有52%。显然这不是一个能轻易解决的问题。虽然如此，我依然相信大大小小的困难创意都能解决。我一直都希望有更多人才能够加入进来与我共事，当然还希望有一些大胆的客户勇于尝试不同的东西，为他们的品牌打造形象。
 
Topys：What kinds of people are O&M looking for? What characteristics are needed in order to get to work in O&M?
Topys：奥美喜欢什么样的人？或者说，拥有什么样的特质，可以让我进入奥美？
Fink：The Creative department is a bit like a squad of football players. You need your dependable defenders so when the going gets really tough these guys can come in a fix things quickly. You need a great midfield to keep the game/agency going and the work flowing. Then there are your strikers. The ones who can score goals, do amazing breakthrough ads and win awards. You also need a few mavericks who can turn a game on it's head with just one spectacular volley. These people may not always be the easiest to work with they are worth their weight in gold on occasions.
I am always looking for hardworking people with a  great attitude. People who want to change the world. Who want to make a difference to the agency.
Fink：创意部门其实有点像一支足球队。你需要可靠的后卫，他们要能够在工作遇到困难的时候迅速解围 ；你也需要优秀的中场去确保比赛/公司一切都运行顺畅；然后就是一些一流的前锋，能够去得分，去做突破性的作品，去赢得奖项；最后你需要一些特立独行的队员，能够一矢中的地把大局扭转。虽然这些人可能都不是最易共事的同事，但在某些场合他们就会证明自己的价值。我一直都在寻找勤奋、有杰出工作态度、希望改变世界、为公司带来影响力的人。
 
Topys：What did you gain most in these two years working in O&M? Any new plans on work recently?
Topys：接受任命两年来，在奥美中国最大的收获是什么，还有什么是最近的计划？
Fink：I have learnt great deal. Especially about the culture of the agency and it’s people. Learnt also when to speak or keep my mouth shut.
Who to call on when things get difficult. And of course I now have a better understanding of what works in China or not.
I see the country changing fast around me so it’s important to keep up ‘creatively fit’.  I read somewhere that the English rugby team did eyeball training so I have been working on that too.
Fink：我在这边学到了很多，特别是公司和当地人的文化。当中也学会何时是发表意见或是保持沉默最适当的时候、有困难的时候要找什么人，当然，现在我对什么能在中国比较可行有更准确的拿捏。我看到这个国家正快速的变化改革中，保持“健康强壮”的创意力是非常重要的。我在一些文章上读到英国榄球队的队员会进行眼球训练，所以我最近也在尝试。

The Main Trends 
大趋势

Topys：Recently, a mode of business called “small-scale yet professional” is very popular in the advertising industry. How do you think of that?
Topys：怎样看待近几年创意界开始风行的“小而美”公司模式？
Fink：I think for certain clients this can obviously work. Yet I think it's possible to be big and small and the same time. We have recently restructured our creative department as a result, so we can work with large groups of specialists and teams on big corporate briefs and also work  like Ninja’s on others. We try to have a tailor made solution for every client.
Fink：我认为对某些客户这显然是可行的。但我觉得一家公司其实是可以在同时间内可以很大，也可以很小。最近我们的创意部门在进行重组，目的是好让我们做大企划时能够组织一个大的专业团队，相反做小项目时也可以变成像忍者一样灵活的小团队。我们在试图为每一个客户度身打造最适合他们的方案。
 
Topys：How do you think a creative could change about the society?
Topys：你认为一个创意人能为社会的改变做什么？
Fink：The tools we use in advertising are very powerful. We have the ability to change the way people behave or think. This is well documented.
I believe that what we produce becomes part of our culture. So I think it’s wrong to put bad ads out there.
Surely we have a duty to make our society better. China doesn’t need another bad car ad or badly designed poster or poorly laid out website. We need to make things look beautiful, or surprising, or making people laugh. I want people to remember our creativity and talk about it. Share it with others and delight in it.
Both us and our clients have a responsibility here.
Fink：我们在广告里用到的创意工具蕴含很大的影响力。我们有能力改变人的行为和思考方式，这是众人皆知的。我相信我们所创造出来的会演变成我们文化的一部分，所以我认为把低劣的广告播出来是错误的。我们当然有责任去让我们的社会变得更美好。中国不需要更多劣质的汽车广告、海报设计或网页版面。我们要把东西做得美、给人带来惊喜、让人可以会心一笑。我希望我们的创意能被记住、被讨论、被分享，令人乐在其中。这是广告公司跟客户的共同责任。 
  
Topys：Can you give some suggestions to the new-comers for this industry?
Topys：给这个行业的新人一些建议吧。
Fink：Get in early. Work hard. Do it because you love it not because you are paid for it. Surprise me.
Fink：早点入行，要努力。为兴趣而做，而不是为了钱。最后，要让我眼前一亮。

关于樊克明
Graham Fink的职业生涯从装扮成一个老年人开始。当时他在正应征伦敦顶级创意商CDP的一份工作，并被告知他们需要一个经验较丰富的人。于是他第二天打扮得比实际年龄成熟一二十岁的样子再次造访了这家公司。他们最终雇佣了他。
接下来他不断地创作了一些最令人记忆深刻的广告案和数不清的奖项。其中包括戛纳金狮奖、D&AD铅笔奖、英国电视金箭奖、英国新闻广告和海报奖，以及很多国际广告奖项诸如欧洲最著名与权威的广告创意奖－EPICA（艾匹卡）奖和EUROBEST奖。他还赢得过四次英国电影学院奖。
1995年，他为伦敦最成功的电影公司Paul Weiland Film Company导演一系列的广告片和音乐电视。
1996年，他成为史上最年轻的英国D&AD（设计与艺术总监协会）评委会主席。
2001年，他创立了自己的公司- thefinktank，一个概念性的专门制作音乐电视和商业广告片的制作公司。以及创办了The Art School (很多人称它为英国最激进的艺术殿堂)来为广告、设计以及电影行业培养优秀的年轻人才。他的作品成功地帮助伦敦赢得2012年奥运会的主办权。
2005年，他转而担任尚思伦敦的执行创意总监。过去的六年是尚思伦敦15年历史中赢得奖项最多的一段时间。
2011年7月，他跨出了戏剧性的一步：离开伦敦，成为奥美中国首席创意长，管理17个办公室的创意工作。
2012年6月，他带领团队完成的作品“可乐手”在2012戛纳国际创意节为奥美亚太区赢得首个全场大奖。

编后记：

采访之前是有顾虑的。
奥美中国首席创意长，大公司，高管，会不会官腔闪闪，似是而非，无比正确。
嗯，还好，不是，Graham显然不是一个有选择困难症的人，他的直接让人眼前一亮。
没有"没有最喜欢的作品"。
没有说中国创意环境和西方举案齐眉。
没有回避，没有委婉，没有大而全。
这样的沟通才是真正带来价值的。

感谢樊克明(Graham Fink)先生接受顶尖文案TOPYS的专访。

本文所有文字版权归顶尖文案TOPYS（http://www.topys.cn）所有，转载请注明出处。